Monday, March 8, 2010

My thoughts on Singaporean men wanting brides from China & Vietnam


I was in the train the other day and overheard this conversation between a group of Singaporeans (all around 45 years old):

Man 1: Aiyah your son can go to China lah, a lot of women there. Pretty and can make good wives. Singaporean women no use.

Man 2: Later cheat my son's money how?

Man 3: Vietnamese brides better. More obedient.

Man 2's wife: Ya good, can help me do housework.

It's very disappointing that men and some women still hold such views of women in society. They expect them to be obedient and domesticated wives, and they presume that women from "developing" countries will meet that expectation.

This is probably why there is a rise in agencies offering young Vietnamese women as wives for Singaporean men. You would have also noticed an increasing number of women from China married to Singaporean men.

I find it pathetic that Singaporean men actually want women from "developing" countries because they assume they will be more obedient.

They think that Singaporean women are too difficult, demanding and materialistic because they often speak their minds and have some ideas of what they want to do with their lives. But that's how people, both men and women, behave in any modern society around the world!

It seems that it's not the Singaporean women with the problem, but the Singaporean men with mindsets like those mentioned above, who suffer from insecurity and a lack of self-confidence. Because they have no luck with women in Singapore, they put the blame on the women and call them "lousy", often ignoring that the problem lies in themselves as well.

Eventually, when these brides from Vietnam and China become more modern, where are these Singaporean men going to find their subservient women? Maybe they'll start looking for women from tribal and nomadic communities.

To the men reading this, I'm not going to give you courtship advice. All I'm going to say is be confident and be yourself. If you think you're worth it, the other person will love you for who you are.

If you like someone, tell or show the person. If they don't seem interested, move on. There are 6 billion people in the world today and I'm sure you've got a lot more to do with your life.

And stop thinking that women should be obedient and subservient to you. We live in the 21st century, so get with the program already.

Rachel Zeng's blog: Singaporean women are useless because they are less ‘obedient’?

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

Women do not belong to the kitchen, and NS should not be only a male's responsibility. This is the 21st century for christ sake!

Anonymous said...

I think you are jealous because you would have no chance to get a fair-skin pretty Vietnamese and Chinese girls. Singapore may be a developed country but as an opposition you know very well Singaporeans including the women may not be very open-minded, intelligent and interesting because they have been suppressed by the dictatorial ruling party for too long. Most Singaporean women are pseudo-westernise but infact, they are with Ah Lian mentality.

The Vietnamese and Chinese girls are much more natural and anytime much more prettier than the local women who usually have flat roti plata face and darker complexion.

Seelan Palay said...

To the 2nd anonymous commentator, I am not jealous because unlike you, I don't judge a person's beauty by the colour of their skin.

Anonymous said...

Dear Seelan.

I understand how you feel about being surrounded by bigortrious (sic) beings like those three men you met in the train.

Its a fact that although we live in the 21st century, not everybody is in tune with the mindset of what is current (just look at Africa, India and the Middle East)

Lets just let Darwinian theory do the job... these people should die out within our lifetime, there will still be a few around I'm sure, but like Pandas (which should be fucking extinct by now if not for the fucking Chinese Government) there will be less to irritate the rest of the sane world.

Anonymous said...

Seelan, what is the difference. You don't judge a person's beauty by the colour of their skin but you judge the character of a person by their nationality.

You are supposed to be an artist and self-proclaimed liberal. How can you be so narrow-minded to make such a sweeping statement that women from developing countries are obedient by just hearing from some aunties' conversation in the MRT. You are also very contradicting. On one hand, you think our ruling party does not respect human rights in Singapore, on the other hand, you consider Singapore as a developed country. Make up your mind, OK. Or else writing such article by you is a disservice to the SDP which I have always respect.

Seelan Palay said...

To the last anonymous, I don't judge people based on their nationality. It just so happens that most "agency brides" in Singapore are from China or Vietnam.

Read my post again, I never made any sweeping statements on women from "developing" countries. I only mention that that is what some of these people think.

Lastly, I always put the word "developing" in open and closed quotes because I do not agree in this idea of calling them less or more developed. This is because I believe the development of a human society must be measured through more than just quantifier like structural development, though most of the world still seems to measure it by that term.

Jaslyn Go said...

Seelan,

I read with interest what u wrote in your blog..and couldn't agree with you more..

look no further, even among people we know..they have such mindsets too...

I was deem too stubborn and not submissive enough because of what I believe in and that I not a 'good wife material'... I was told that women should submit to their men even by some of my girlfriends who believes the way to keep their man happy is to be submissive and obedient..

looks like I am not the kind of woman SG men likes..but it's ok as I am sure for everyone who don't, there are some out there who do...

thanks Seelan, for speaking up for women like me..

a timely article on World Women's Day :)

Ghost said...

Sorry but I fail to see what's wrong with the views stated by the group on the train. What they said is commonly accepted facts in Singapore, ie foreign brides are more ‘obedient’ than Singaporean brides. Nothing wrong there.

Aileen N said...

Seelan,

Could it be that : Many of our men, who were although born and bred in a 'developed' country but were subjected to harsh corporal punishment and training, so much so that they are conditioned to be more obedience, conforming and compliant than the men from other countries without conscription & liberal democracies.

On the other hand, our women are spared from the harsh corporal punishment and conscription, were not conditioned into the type of obedience which our men were conditioned into.

They are just like any 'normal developed countries' women. But our conditioned men will find them overbearing and too independent. In any other developed country, 'independent' thinking women would be the norm and a positive trait. To the overly "conditioned" obedient SG men, this positive trait would be deemed as "disobedient" women.

What do you think?

Anonymous said...

think you're being a wee bit too serious about the little conversation you overheard.

anyways, would just like to point out, taking (marrying?) a wife is different from taking (having?) a mistress or girlfriend.

haha...i'll leave you to your own interpretations. just don't be too serious lah.

Seelan Palay said...

Hi last anonymous, I think it is a serious issue that women are being thought of that way. Women I speak to sure seem to think so.

The conversation I overheard may be a simple one, but the reflections of it in society are quite obvious to women who can and want to think and speak for themselves.

Workers Party said...

Ok, SDP puppy heard u

tewniaseng said...

Why marry foreign wifes ? It is because the education levels of Singaporeans girls are higher and S'pore men can't find local partners who are compatible. Imagine a primary 6 educated man,how to find a local girl, so they have to look beyond 3rd countries.

Anonymous said...

As a woman myself, its disturbing to know that just because most woman here are educated(compared to the ''obedient'' women from Vietnam and China) we are regarded as useless? I guess men these days are just inferior to women here who are not afraid to speak their minds. So just because we want our spouses to share the household chores and every effort that needs to be taken for a successful marriage, we are considered less obedient and not ''fit'' to get married? If doing housework and nodding our heads like cows to whatever our husbands say is what it takes to be a ''good'' wife. Then i'd rather remain alone. Atleast I get to remain a profound working woman with dignity than to loose my self respect by becoming an unpaid maid for my husband.

And what is up with--(( The Vietnamese and Chinese girls are much more natural and anytime much more prettier than the local women who usually have flat roti plata face and darker complexion--))
this statement????

- Its offensive,So now sporean woman are not only considered useless, but we have roti prata face and dark? hmmm...In what way does the colour and face affect a woman in being a 'good' wife again??? Such a shallow statement to make. This statement itself shows the 'open-mindedness' of some men here in Spore who seek ''obedient'' wives.
I hope these men find their snow whites. Snow white was darn good in sweeping,mopping,cooking for and tidying the dwarfs house :) Just a little dumb though..but that's ok cause being 'obedient' is what matters most right?:)

Anonymous said...

appears that there's more to the conversation overheard than you posted.

adults in their 40s have different mindsets of their ideal wife or daughter in law, be it resultant from their education, generation bias or with the benefit of hindsight and personal experience.

people marry for a myriad of reasons, from the callous to the practical to the romantic. nonetheless, reflecting the notion of marriage, it still takes two hands to clap.

pardon me, seems like you oversimplify this peculiar? phenomenon?. there's more to the issue than i would like to elaborate by above points for now.

i do however agree on one point: confidence defines a man.

1786

Anonymous said...

There may also be more to this than mere male chauvinism:

"Other East Asian countries—South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan—have peculiarly high numbers of male births." (The Economist, 4 March 2010. See http://tinyurl.com/ycndx99)

There may be just not enough Singaporean women to go around..

Anonymous said...

Seelan,

The problem is really much more complex than people think.

I can only attest to my experience as a 33 year-old guy.

My mom is one of those very fair North Indians; she has chinese skin color. My dad is the typical dark-skinned Indian guys you see.

My brother came out looking like a fair malay; I have Bollywood-fair skin and my sister looks like a typical slightly fair-skinned Indian girl.

And it's funny, you know. My brother hangs with all his malay friends. My sister hangs with all her Indian friends. I hang with my Chinese friends.

What's interesting is that I grew up, hoping to date malay girls. which I did. But I find myself different from them in how we see the world.

I often ask myself whether the fact that my mom has fair Chinese skin sets me up to find Chinese girls (the fair-skinned ones) more attractive than the rest of the girls I'd dated. I don't know really.

But I do know beauty is skin deep and it doesn't last. There had better be more than mere wrinkles for that relationship to last.

DKR said...

QUOTE:
"I think you are jealous because you would have no chance to get a fair-skin pretty Vietnamese and Chinese girls. Singapore may be a developed country but as an opposition you know very well Singaporeans including the women may not be very open-minded, intelligent and interesting because they have been suppressed by the dictatorial ruling party for too long. Most Singaporean women are pseudo-westernise but infact, they are with Ah Lian mentality."

The Vietnamese and Chinese girls are much more natural and anytime much more prettier than the local women who usually have flat roti plata face and darker complexion.

Now dear 2nd anonymous after reading ur above comment here....i dont whether i want to laugh at you or pity you...it is clear to me that in actual fact you are jealous of guys who can get a good decent local girl....i do not deny the fact that girls in singapore are materialistic to a certain extend but arent guys the same...? Local girls are hard to please...arent the local guys too...Local girls with Ah Lian mentality....arent local guys too have ah beng mentality...? Local girls have flat roti prata (i guess u r try to say roti prata....but can see the difference between prata n plate..) arent local guys too...? The fact that you actually type all this only shows that you are a true blue MCP...remember to give me ur address so i can send u a certificate for being a MCP...joke aside...now i hope u see a clearer picture....if you want to choose...other also have the right to choose...if you do not have the quality...will people choose you..? i personally have met many wonderful ladies in singapore...who are intelligent and interesting....and they are nice people...and are you saying that the ladies in vietnam and china are more intelligent and interesting then local ladies..? this statement seems a bit wrong to me...correct me if im wrong ....china is currently opening up...a lot of china students came to singapore with little knowledge of what is going on around the world and they are here hoping to secure a better future....where as local ladies at least know how to present themselves in front of crowds so what they are not as pretty as those from china or vietnam....can u guarantee that 10yrs down the road or maybe 15yrs...will your china or vietnam girls be as pretty as she is now..? after she give birth will her figure still as good....? Oya...i forgot you can get another china girl or vietnam girl...just divorce the ugly one can already right..? Stop being so shallow....you are the reason why singapore ladies do not like local cause you are the type of people who demand this demand that yet you cant give...a relationship is able taking and giving if you can give the girl the lifestyle she wants....then do not demand too much from her...

PS: im blessed by the god to have so many wonderful local girls around me who arent materialistic...thank god...

Anonymous said...

Singaporean girls are too demanding...their ultimate goal is to marry ang-moh and go europe thats all

Anonymous said...

Some men like the allure of a foreign woman. Some men like the idea of marrying a foreign woman, so beautiful she makes your eyes hurt, who doesn't even speak their language.

If a man wants to marry a woman who is focused on the home who likes to cook clean, have kids, and take care of the family, and the woman is okay with that, why should anyone complain about that? This may actually be good for Singapore's population.

For thousands of years, parents and other people arranged marriages for their kids. In traditional societies, it may have been much easier to get married that in modern societies where women are concenred with their career and put off marriage, and people date multiple partners. Men have to ask women out, and women seem, to men, to be playing games, when maybe they just don't know what they want. Shy reserved fellows may find it difficult to get far along enough in the dating game to get married.

I can certainly see the appeal of a line of beautiful, humble women lining up, each with the hope the single man will choose her for marriage, and then marrying within a few days. For some men, it is important that a woman be a virgin, so a line of beautiful virgins is even more appealing. The man can be married in a few days if he chooses and then they can start the adventure of getting to know each other.

From the man's perspective, it sounds better than an arranged marriage that mom and dad put together with some girl you've never seen before.

I guess these girls want to move abroad. Most of it is probably financial motivation. I suppose some of them just like the idea of the adventure and have heard good stories about these relationships. I wonder if they are used to arranged marriages anyway. if they want to go for this deal, I guess that's up to them.

Marra said...

I agree with what you wrote. If these men expect their wives to be servants, catering to their every need, they don't deserve anybody. In the past, women were subservient to men because men were the sole breadwinners, while the women just did housework. Now, that women have started working, they should not continue to be treated as servants, as they have become on the same level as the men. A man who sees his wife as a servant rather than a person just does not deserve a wife. No matter whether his wife is working or depending on him, she is still a person. What so great about men that they expect to be served like kings?

Anonymous said...

Personal experiences – everything in a word. Singaporean women are:

1) UGLY compared to their counterparts in other Asian countries, yet they think they’re the hottest of all Asian women.

Many are either too petite, short or fat. The taller, slim ones are the Decepticons; from behind they look desirable, but when they turn around, urrgghh.

2) Not spontaneous at all. “Come let’s go sing a birthday song to my friend over there.”

Foreign Woman: “Sure!”
Singaporean Woman: “Err.. I’m not good at singing.” or “Err.. I don’t know him you know.”

3) Lacking substance during conversation.

Singaporean Woman: I like Prada because it is fashionable and expensive and when I sling it, I will be the envy of everyone.
Foreign Woman: I like Prada because of its eccentricities and also, I’ve never found a perfect design in all their models. This keeps me curious and waiting for the next model.
Singaporean Woman: Huh?

4) 5 Cs and 5 Bs. Only Singaporean women can unabashedly come up with such shit. Who do you think you are, Angelina Jolie? Worse still, they revel in it like a motto, like they live for it.

5) Lacking initiative. They don’t know how to please their man.

Foreign Woman: Why do you love me so much? What’s so good about me? I’m so lucky to have you.
Singaporean Woman: So what if you’re handsome? You should be grateful that I’m even paying attention to you.

p.s Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai women do not just lie flat in bed and wait for you to do everything like the Singaporean woman does.

6) Unable to do basic housework. And I’m not saying they should be slaves in the house. I’m talking about something as simple as wiping shit off the table after eating, cleaning up after themselves or even folding their own clothes! That’s what happens when feminism rises in a society like Singapore and women become too educated to be involved in ‘lowly’ activities like cooking and cleaning. Between my wife and I, I clean the toilets and the kitchen while she cleans the living room and the patio.

So far all the women I’ve dated are foreign women, whereas with Singaporean women I am not bothered to go past a sexual relationship. Now I am finally happy and settled with someone pretty (WAY beyond the likes of what you will find in Singapore), who cares for me as much as I care for her, and who doesn’t give me shit to take. I respect her and do not give her any shit either. (Request and I will gladly send a photo)

Very pretty and does not give you shit. Now WHERE can you find that in Singaporean women? =)

Singaporean men should not be stupid and take shit from Singaporean women, like carry their handbags for them so they can walk empty handed and make you look like a fool.

And then you wonder why Singaporean men want brides from China and Vietnam..